Read the following excerpt from John Donne’s Devotions Upon Emergent Occasions, “Meditation XVII,” and answer the following question in freewriting format:
What ethical values can we discern in this piece?
Answer thoughtfully, and with care, for discussion and writing in our next class period.
A major theme in this piece is the interconnectedness of humans – that the actions of or upon one man have ramifications for others. This raises the ethics of killing: killing another man ‘diminishes the killer’. This piece also uses the metaphor that even though a man may have gold, it is worthless if not converted to accepted currency in the same way that suffering has no use, except for getting closer to God. The idea that learning about the dangers of others improves a man’s awareness of their own dangers is also important. The tolling bell is a symbol representing mourning of death. The idea that ‘the bell tolls for thee’ signifies whenever someone dies – you die a little as well.
What ethical values can we discern in this piece?
The beliefe in God is very strong. It is almost like a communism, since the author feels that for every baby baptized, every man who dies, he has a certain responsibility towards it, as he is part of the christian church. He also questions for whom the bell might end up tolling, and why.
-Equality
-Matters of the church concern everyone, no matter what their social standings are
– Everyone’s lives will be “translated” and they will go to a better place
Here you can see the value of human life and the importance of religion. You can discern from this piece that the reader is catholic and talks about human equality saying that everyone is part of the continent, part of a whole. The bell of which he speaks refers to a funeral bell that brings one closer to God.
I found that Donne stressed the importance of groups, and society for mankind. I see that he stresses the importance of working together.everyone isinterconnected,even in death.
– Everyone is related through religion (in this case Catholicism)
– Catholicism influences the decisions of the people
– Everyone is related in a way. If one man dies then the “continent” becomes less.
– Focuses on equality and unity
– Kind of Marxist (even though it is pre-Marx) view on class (class struggle, everyone is equal)
[...] with you in Google docs. Be sure to post your response to the Donne homework from yesterday on the homework blog post today! I’m underwhelmed by the amount of you who came prepared to discuss the piece – 6 [...]
I believe that one of the major ethical values in this piece is that death and suffering are experiences to be revered. For example, the tolling of the bells is described to be almost a cause of rejoice, and suffering brings one closer to God. However, these must be used for the benefit of society. Death may be great for the person experiencing it, but it diminishes society. Similarly, suffering that is not shared or for a cause is not as beneficial or important to God.
Personally, I thought that Donne really emphasized on the group rather than the individual. Although it can be argued that thinking as something as a group can mean that if one person goes down the rest will as well but it also means that if one person is suffering, the group will unite as one and help them. I also thought that he was stressing the connection that we have with each other, no matter what. In a way, it’s a very comforting thought because we realize that we aren’t alone and that we’ll always have someone there for us.
Here is the homework, since i was unable to post it in class because of the problem with my internet as I showed you.
“PERCHANCE he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill as that he knows not it tolls for him. And perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me, and see my state, may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that .”
I chose this because I agree with this part and believe that people see each other in a different light.
The segment contains ethics by talking about human interactions. I think that people forget to look at themselves. Peoples interactions will change if you think of yourself differently, or at least see how others see you.
I would connect this with myself because I was asked to describe myself for my personal statement. I had to ask my parents to help to describe me. I noticed how I did not know exactly how to describe myself. I should think about how I am as a person more, and it would possibly help me in certain situations.
Connects to text by talking about how the bell connects people. The peoples beliefs connect them in the novel.
This is terribly interesting to me, Axel – we are often self-absorbed and narcissistic, yet we don’t know ourselves. Would Donne argue that this is why we don’t see the interconnectedness with mankind, or would he argue that this makes it harder for us to see God? Perhaps the two arguments are the same.
Does Robert Jordan know himself? Do other characters in the novel know themselves well, or struggle with this particularly?
Major values of this piece are the ideas of community and equality: all people are connected, and the fate and actions of individuals affect the whole. Donne claims that we are all chapters of the same book, all pieces of the same continent. He also says that we as individuals must choose to be united with others, “the bell doth toll for him, that thinks it doth…”
He also talks about suffering and how we treat it and how it affects us in the last paragraph. Rather than thinking badly of suffering and human affliction, he calls it a treasure, something with which to buy access to Heaven. This shows his idea that suffering, rather than making people bitter, has the power to make people more ethical and pious.
This piece brings out the fact that all people are interconnected and that our actions have consequences that affect others whether we think about it or not. Where the writer says “no man is an island, entire of itself”, I found this incredibly interesting becauseI have always enjoyed solitude, but here the writer brings up a good point that everyone is a “part of a continent”, and that whether we like it or not our decisions and actions affect the others around us. The idea of being connected to people that we may not even have met directly stood out to me as something that I had not thought about before, and the idea that a man dying that we have no direct association with can affect us through a chain reaction is certainly a very interesting idea to me.
This passage explores the idea of the interconnectedness of human begins and how one’s actions affect another’s. The passage uses the metaphor of the church and the body to explain how a child’s baptism affects all members of the church. The passage goes further by comparing humans to an island, which cannot survive without the continent, or rather without all of humankind. Also, the passage demonstrates the negative events like one’s death, affliction or danger can be translated into something good for someone else. For example, someone’s danger may be a warning to another, and thus their security. Conclusively, it is through learning of another’s affliction that we can better ourselves. The author further explains that humans can never share enough misery and affliction, because that is what brings us closer to God. The tolling bell symbolizes the interrelatedness of everyone and how one’s troubles affect everyone-the bell tolls for thee.
Two important ethical values that can be detected in this excerpt from Devotions Upon Emergent Occasions are the value of religion and human relationships.
The value of religion, that the author clearly cares about, can be seen in the way John Donne describes the “translation” of chapters into better languages. He talks about how when a man dies his “chapter” is not torn out of the book but rather translated into a better language, this translation is a metaphor for going to heaven as your life or chapter is translated from the language of earth into the language of heaven.
“No man is an island. entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent” This quote shows how the value of human relationships is shown in the excerpt. Donne talks about how everyone is connected to everyone else in the world and no one can truly be alone. I personally find this to be a very true idea as no matter how hard you try to separate yourself from the world you will always interact with other human beings in some indirect way. This also reminds me of the six degrees of separation law.
The main theme of this text is clearly the idea of the human community. Human society is seemingly likened to a multi-cellular organism in which death plays a vital role – both as a negative (the bell tolls for EVERYONE when one person dies) and a positive (the metaphor of death being like rewriting a chapter in a better language). Death causes grief and suffering to a community but it is a necessary and even improving process with far-reaching consequences.
One thing I noticed is that the bell carries figurative meaning because two of its functions are mentioned – a funeral bell and a church bell signaling prayer. These differing functions symbolize the dichotomy of death as a detrimental, but rejuvenating and holy force in a community.
In addition, it is clear that Donne (most likely from a Catholic perspective) idolizes suffering and sacrifice, both associated to death and negativity, as strengthening a person’s relationship with God and as necessary steps to Heaven. It is interesting how Donne, quite explicitly, refers to suffering as currency or gold.
I found that religion was very important as well as the focus of the effects on groups rather than just an individual. I think Donne was trying to show us that one effect on an individual will cause a string of effects on the people surrounding him.
Donne describes death in two contexts – as a positive (like translating a chapter into a better language) and a negative (causing everyone to lose part of themselves). In a way, mankind is a multi-cellular organism in which each cell is interdependent. Individual cells may die, causing damage to the organism, but death is a natural and necessary process which allows for healing and growth.
The church bell’s figurative meaning tells the reader of this dichotomy. Church bells are referred to in their function in funerals and in signaling prayer. Death is both something to be mourned, but it is also holy and dignified.
Donne (in the Catholic tradition) emphasizes and idolizes pain and suffering as glorious. Despite their negative effects on people, they strengthen humans’ relationships with God and give them a better chance of entering heaven. Quite explicitly, “affliction” is likened to gold or currency which is thus useful for entering Heaven, and can be left for the benefit of others.
One of the key values of the Meditation is religion. He describes Catholicism as being the head of humanity, and humanity thereby being one being. This leads into the value of community. What happens to one of us affects us all because we are joined by this head that is Catholicism, essentially making us one being.
“No man is an island. entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main”
The ethical values indicated in this piece are the moral equality of humans and that a belief in God will sustain and lead humans to piousness and eventually lead us to Heaven. John Donne shows through this piece that all humans are equal in God’s eyes, an example of that being our universal acceptance into Heaven. We all hope to be seen as ‘good’ people worthy of entrance into heaven, but in the end, once you yourself believe that you are worthy of Heaven you will be accepted. The quote “The bell doth toll for him, that thinks it doth…” supports this idea with the bell being God’s invitation to Heaven. Perhaps this can be linked to our modern day world where self confidence will help you achieve your goals. The last paragraph of the piece shows that a belief in God will lead to a more pious and secure life in that a belief in God is depicted as an affliction (because of the frequent internal conflicts that a belief can create) but also a treasure. We are made fit for God by this affliction and “his treasure (belief in God) will not defray as he travels” showing the strength that we are given by a belief in God.
In today’s society ethics depend on us all agreeing on a fairly regular moral code. This is what religion does. He doesn’t define what he means by security, if he is describing it as moral or ethical structure, then he shouldn’t be worried about it disintegrating, because we still have security in our society today(thanks to individualism and freedom of belief). Considering God as your only security groups all mankind together again, which he said diminished him:”any man’s death diminishes me” His ethics are governed by his religion, and if they are not, then God is not his only security.
The fact that our moral code may be governed by afflictions sound just like the “Soul Making Defense” put forward by John Hick which defends the problem of evil religion. The security from this affliction that he seeks cannot be found in God, because to have God is to have the contrary; evil, which gives rise to these afflictions.
Everybody is a part of the chruch therefore all of the church’s actions are the people’s as well/concern the people, if you truly want something then you have to do whatever it takes to get it, nobody is alone in the world as they are all part of a greater contingency, don’t ask why something happens just accept it
- Emphasis on being connected as one (“universal”) thanks to the Church
- Gives importance to who joins and leaves the Church (through baptism and death)
- People’s actions have an effect on the individual (” any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind”)
I thought that equality was very important as well as the importance of groups.Donne emphasizes on how everyone is part of a whole. He also talks about how everyone is related through religion.
I believe that the text has a strong feeling of unity, and how all of mankind is connected through God. The church is a way to connect all as for example when one dies and is burried it effects every part of mankind and that is how he connects it to the bell tolls for you. Also this adresses that we should all metaphorically ‘get up early’ and wake each other up and take initiative to the call of the bell. John Donne thinks were wurthless and miseralbe alone but if we stand to gether we might find some sort of figurative treasure in each other. The text is saying we are all united so that is what we should do, because in the end we will all be united in heaven with God.
I cannot agree with John Donne in a biblical sense but as a fact each action any of us take is adding to a grand never stoping outcome of what happens in the future. We can only do what is best in our point of view so this complicates the grand connection between mankind. however basically we are all one organism in process so every contribution changes the direction.
What ethical values can we discern in this piece?
• Talks about how we are all one and how everyone has different principles which we must respect and also try to live with, because there is no I what one does affect all.
• We can’t rely on others to always step up, we ourselves must step up as well
• Everyone is part of a whole there is no “lone wolf” we are all part of a community
• One man’s burden is all of ours
• No one has to struggle alone, equality, and religious beliefs
Being a devout catholic Donne puts a lot of emphasis on the status of the church, he goes as far as to say that all humanity is combined beneath the banner of his church. So in this meditation there is the ethical value of religion and the role that religion plays in the frailty of man. Donne wished in this meditation to give a higher meaning to our afflictions and state them in such a way to encourage us to rejoice in our afflictions because they shall appease god.
Donne believes that man is unified under one banner and that what one man does affects everyone else around him. This piece is designed to encourage belief since it is a reasoning and an escape from suffering and human frailty/aggression.
The text is about how humans are all one, and all connected with each other. Donne uses a book as a metaphor, and every human as a chapter. He also glorifies death, by saying that when a man dies, his chapter is translated into a better language. This is one of two metaphors Donne uses to describe the connection between mankind. The other is the one of continents, and no man being an island.
There is also a religious connection in that god is a part of every human beings death, and their “translation” to whatever comes after.
The beginning of this excerpt by John Donne from his work ‘Devotions Upon Emergent Occasions’ emphasizes an important ethical value that we can perhaps learn from. “PERCHANCE he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill as that he knows not it tolls for him. And perchance I may think myself so much better than I am, as that they who are about me, and see my state, may have caused it to toll for me, and I know not that.” This quote is definitely an excellent indication that self reflection and the way we see ourselves as well as others is an important value for Donne. So often we do not see ourselves how others see us, and so often we need to learn that from interaction with others we can also find things out about ourselves.
Another ethical value that is of great importance to Donne is that of the connection that the Catholic Church creates between people. “The church is catholic, universal, so are all her actions; all that she does, belongs to all.” Donne believes that the matters of the church concern everyone and that through actions such as burial and baptism, we are all effected by and connected to others through body and mind.
However; the church aside, something else we can discern from reading this passage is the concept of interconnection in society. Many of us enjoy solitude, and relying on ourselves, but Donne makes the point that we are in fact, all “a piece of the continent, a part of the main.” The choices others make, or the things that others experience all have some sort of consequence for us. “Who casts not up his eye to the sun when it rises? But who takes off his eye from a comet, when that breaks out? Who bends not his ear to any bell, which upon any occasion rings? But who can remove it from that bell, which is a passing a piece of himself out of this world?” I loved this quote because people can argue that Donne focuses on the way that religion connects us, but here is an example completely unrelated to religion that still makes the point that we are all interconnected in such a way that we either do not want to, or choose not to see.
An additional ethical value that Donne discusses in this passage concerns suffering, and the way that our suffering as well as the suffering of others strengthens us, and brings us closer to God. The dominant focus in the last paragraph is on God, and how suffering brings us closer to him, however I was drawn more to the first line. “Neither can we call this a beggin of misery, or a borrowing of misery, as though we were not miserable enough of ourselves, but must fetch in more from the next house, in taking upon us the misery of our neighbors.” The death of another may cause us grief and suffering, however Donne explains that in his mind it is through this suffering that we can improve ourselves, and make us more ethical.
And finally, the symbol of the bell tolling connects people and connects them in their beliefs. This symbol is used throughout the passage to emphasize each of Donne’s ethical values. “Because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.”
Donne’s passage inspires various ethical questions concerning mankind, and the relations of the individual to the world. Initially, Donne begins the passage by stating that the church is universal, and that mankind is claimed by this theory of religion, and thus, religion is claimed by mankind(‘The church is catholic, universal, so are all her actions; all that she does, belongs to all. When she baptizes a child, that action concerns me; for that child is thereby connected to that head which is my head too, and ingraffed into that body, whereof I am a member’). In addition, Donne later comments that ‘the bell that rings to a sermon, calls not upon the preacher only, but upon the congregation to come, so this bell calls us all’. Can this ‘bell’ be related to a call to arms? Is that bell and internal device of reflection? to awaken our desires? to tame us not to desire sinful thing? Is this bell a form of punishment? Is there value in the bell?
Later, Donne states that ‘no man is an island. entire of itself, every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main,’ a concept that presents both beneficial and detrimental consequences that concern society and culture. There is both safety and foolishness in unity and seclusion. Just as a man cannot easily prosper in seclusion, a civilization cannot either (e.g. Qing dynasty). Also, the passage highlights the concept of the ‘double-edged sword’; Donne presents the notion that ‘any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.’ This promotes the ‘double –edged sword concept as one of the detrimental consequences of unity (self-destruction), by informing the reader that because of this religious connection between man (does Donne suggest that religion is the only thing that binds mankind?), to kill another is to kill oneself.
So, is it better to remain secluded, or unified? Can a civilization succeed in attaining harmony? Finally, Donne’s reference the death of man raises questions on the value of human life, similar to the references in ‘For Whom the Bell Tolls’.
Donne talks about how we are all one and how everyone is associated and somewhat related. He also explains how everyone has different ideas, principles, religions etc which everyone has to value and live with. It also sounds as though Donne is trying to say that death is good because he explains that when you die your page doesn’t get ripped out of the book, it gets translated into another language. Meaning that you are still there and thought about but no one can “read or understand” you. It also sort of explains how we must not rely on other people to step in and do hard tasks or jobs and we must also help. We are able to be a whole due to the Church.